does this very thing when he states, “[Canonicity] cannot be established, it seems, from the books themselves.”62 The problem, then, is not that the church plays a role in identifying canonical books (Protestants would agree with this), but the Catholic insistence that it plays the only and definitive role. In regard to the more stringent Catholic approach to the church-canon relationship, the idea that the canon is “derivative”63 from the church or “caused”64 by the church also raises a number of